Eugene Katchalov is a name that’s probably familiar to longtime poker fans, but if you’ve only gotten into the game over the last few years, you might not have heard of him, so here’s a rundown.
He’s got almost $9.3 million in lifetime tournament earnings, placing him 2nd on Ukraine’s all-time money list – he was first for YEARS until about 4 months ago (kudos, Igor Yaroshovsky). He’s won the trifecta: a WPT Title back in 2007 (5-Diamond), a WSOP bracelet in 2011, and an EPT (side event) title in 2016.
He’s a former BLUFF Magazine player of the year and most notably was a prominent member of Team PokerStars pro between 2011-2016. The poker world hasn’t heard TOO much from him, as Eugene has mainly pursued other things, but he’s with us today for a long overdue catch up.
Eugene Katchalov Interview: Summarized Transcript
You were born and raised in Ukraine, living there until you were about 10 years old before moving to the States. And you lived there again from about 2015 until February 2022, when Russia invaded the country. I feel like the last time you “made noise” in the poker world was right at that time, February 2022… you went on some podcasts and gave some interviews retelling your incredible, harrowing story of what it was like to escape. Since then, you’ve settled back in Kyiv once more. When did you return to Ukraine?
I lived in the Czech Republic for about six months, and then my wife and I decided to make a trip back to Ukraine, as she has a growing clothing brand business to run in the country. We saw that things had more or less returned to normal and we felt safe, so we basically moved back and have been here for about two years once more.
Life sort of just goes on here in Kyiv, the war notwithstanding. One thing that has changed though is that there are no planes in and out of the country, only cars and trains. So that adds almost a full day of travel time when I need to go elsewhere in the world. But we feel at home here more than in any other country, so hopefully things will calm down again soon, the war will end and we can get back to normal.
The news only reports the negative side; only when something big happens does the news report it. So that’s why people outside the country think that it’s just constantly bombs flying, but it’s nothing like that at all.
I know in that immediate aftermath of your escape, you immediately turned to helping nonprofits and causes aiding the Ukrainian people. To what degree are you still involved in that?
My wife and I do still help, but rather than big organizations it’s just assisting specific people on a case by case basis now, as that way we know exactly where the money is going.
You kind of “dropped off” the world poker scene in late 2017 – continued repping a local Ukrainian Poker site “Poker Match” for a few years. Made a little comeback at the 2022 WSOP (I think you said any winnings you managed to accrue would be donated to Ukraine?), and have basically been pursuing other things. On your Instagram page, in your bio you describe yourself as an “entrepreneur, investor and former poker pro”. Are there any specific elements of that “poker lifestyle” you lived for so many years that you occasionally miss?
I always loved poker and I continue to love poker. Sure, there are absolutely things that I miss from when I was just playing the game as a pro. I don’t really want to play the game professionally anymore, but I certainly do wish to do so recreationally as well as to show other people how beautiful the game is and for more people to begin playing poker as a result.
One thing that I do miss is more frequently traveling the world and meeting all sorts of different kinds of people, but then again when I did that for too long, I missed having a home base. I’m happy to have my home base now.
Your WSOP bracelet you won back in 2011 was actually in 7-Card Stud, in the $1500 event, winning just over $122k. You’ve got LOTS of non-Hold’em cashes on your Hendonmob page…. Let’s dive a little into some talk about mixed games. What’s your favorite one? What do you like about mixed games that you feel NLHE lacks?
I’ve been a mixed game fan almost right from when I started playing poker. Before signing on with PokerStars, I was a high stakes mixed game player. Besides the variety of “not just Hold’em all the time”, I enjoy the fact that mixed games aren’t solved in the same way that Hold’em is. There’s still so much that you have to figure out on your own, and the adaptation you have to make to your opponents is still something you need to be proactive with.
Stud is actually my favorite mixed poker game and there’s a ton of depth to it. In the same way that Hold’em has many levels of depth, the same is true about Stud.
The problem I see with poker today is that there are so many tools for poker players to get better and better, including solvers and AI. The pros use these tools and as a result the gap between them and the purely recreational poker players is widening; that concerns me. Mixed games don’t have as great a gap, as there are fewer study tools focused on that niche within poker. You get more bang for your buck as a recreational player playing mixed games.
READ MORE: Mixed Game Poker Guide
Undeniably, the average level of poker play over the last few years has risen. There are SO many learning tools and poker training sites out there; people are eager to learn. People want to improve their game. In a sense, this is the natural progression and development for a mature industry – think of legendary tennis champion Bjorn Borg with his wooden racket versus the metal rackets of modern players. So, you’d argue that this progress is “good for the game or bad for the game”? Why?
So tennis is a good example, but the same is true across all sports and competitive endeavors; there’s always that natural progression. In poker, however, it just makes it more predatory towards new and recreational players. There’s no precise equivalent in other professional sports — you don’t have random people off the street competing against professional athletes.
In poker, however, at least in tournaments, it’s a full open playing field where anyone compete against anyone else. So I feel that it’s important to level that playing field a bit more. Like 99% of poker players don’t play the game for a living, so it’s bad for the game if you don’t feel like you have any shot whatsoever against other people at the table because they’re pros.
Yeah, about a month ago you put out a LONG Tweet – now it’s your pinned tweet — outlining “what poker has become” and that something needs to change.
My Mission to Make Poker Enjoyable Again
I recently ran a poll here on X to get the opinion of recreational players on whether solvers make the game more or less appealing to them (thanks to everyone who voted), and was happy that over 700 of you responded. The result was as…
— Eugene Katchalov (@EugeneKatchalov) August 6, 2024
I understand you’re on the verge of launching some sort of new product on the business side of poker. Can you please tell us a little about that; what’s its name and who is it designed for?
I’d like to see sustained growth in the poker ecosystem. It’s not yet time to reveal what we’re doing, but we’ve been working on ways to help preserve that sort of growth and shrink the gap between pro poker players and recreational players. If we level out the gap by increasing the variance (i.e., not the mechanics), I believe we can accelerate the growth of the overall player base.
Well, even without knowing what the product or service is, clearly you’ve been putting a lot of time, work, effort, and resources into it. With poker just a small slice of the overall gaming industry, what nonetheless makes you bullish enough on the game to have been making such a big personal investment in it?
People are always looking for entertainment and poker is a great form of entertainment. I’d like to be able to showcase the game from a perspective that made ME love the game. Also, from a spectator’s perspective, it seems like these days people only really tune in for highlights, unless you truly follow the game as an ardent fan.
From a content creation perspective, I believe we can shine a light on poker that will bring more people to the game and make it more entertaining to watch beyond just those highlight reels.
So what’s your “product timetable” and involvement in the poker world going to look like over the next few months?
The first part of the project will hopefully launch at the end of the year; it’s bigger than just poker. But at the latest we hope to launch in January of 2025.
I plan to attend EPT Cyprus and then I’ll be heading to Las Vegas for the WPT World Championship. I feel like it’s a good opportunity to network with people and keep my finger on the pulse of the game. Plus, of course it would be nice to also hopefully cash in some tournaments and make some money.
What message do you want to leave our audience with before we conclude the interview? Where can they learn more about your project?
I’m always open to feedback, so please do reach out to me on my social media channels once you see the product, or if you just want to be in touch. I’m super optimistic about live poker, as it’s growing by leaps and bounds, but also online poker can still grow and I feel positive about that; poker has a bright future.
